Meanderings
Jun. 19th, 2002 04:49 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
moonwiseI had my Laguna and Raine story from the last dj translated by Mihoko, and I'm having a very tough time not novelizing it, even though it wouldn't fit with Storm Front. It's just so cute!
Laguna and Raine: Do it do it do it do it...
Arafel: Shut up. You take up too much of my head anyway.
The rest of this is idle musing about the fate of the rest of my fic and is largely for me to just talk to the wall, but if any of you have ideas, please do share your thoughts.
So now that we've had the Great Revelation and a good time afterwards, I have to start thinking about how the rest of the fic is going to go. Of course there will be the inevitable return of Kiros and then getting married and so on, but there are two burning questions:
1. How long are Laguna and Raine together before Esthar arrives
and
2. Does Laguna know Raine is pregnant before he leaves.
It's a tough question. Squall was born in August, so it stands to reason that he was conceived nine months or thereabouts earlier. As time stands in the story, it's September. If Elle is kidnapped in the theoretical Year One, they have all of three months of wedded bliss. I have to admit that interrupting it is very tragic and that's rather the point of the story, but giving them another year is so tempting. Not that I'd drag the fic out for that year, but still. Time to get attached etc.
Then again, not too many friends chill out for a year while their former commander makes nooky with the barmaid. I think it's going to have to be something as short as 3-5 months because of the way I've set the story up (drat drat drat.) If I'd only plotted the calendar a little better... :P But anyway.
Next question.
The more I think about it, the more I think Laguna must have had some inkling that he had a son, whether he knew Raine was pregnant or not. I mean... he did know Edea; we see him talk to her when he's looking for Ellone, and presumably they were in contact when Ellone goes to the orphanage later. And Laguna knows that Edea and Cid made a ship where Elle could stay safe.
So how could Edea not tell Laguna about his progeny? If we give Laguna the benefit of the doubt, then she might not have known who Squall's father was; she didn't know Raine and she might have assumed that the baby was Raine's by some unknown man. But the kicker is that Elle must have known. The game seems to tell us that Laguna and Raine were married before he left to chase Elle - they certainly had enough time together to make a baby, and not everyone gets pregnant on the first try - and how would Elle not have told Edea who Squall's mom and dad were?
So I am forced to conclude that Laguna knew that he had a son, one way or another, and either he was so busted up over Raine's death that he didn't want to take care of the baby or he just didn't feel he could handle raising a son alone. I suppose Laguna might have thought that growing up with other kids was better than growing up in the Presidential Palace. I hardly think that excuses anything, but still.
[Laguna is looking very shamefaced]
Yeah, you probably should look shamefaced at that, dear muse. The only mitigating factor is that you meant well, in all likelihood.
Still must do some more mulling over this but thinking it through like this helps.
Laguna and Raine: Do it do it do it do it...
Arafel: Shut up. You take up too much of my head anyway.
The rest of this is idle musing about the fate of the rest of my fic and is largely for me to just talk to the wall, but if any of you have ideas, please do share your thoughts.
So now that we've had the Great Revelation and a good time afterwards, I have to start thinking about how the rest of the fic is going to go. Of course there will be the inevitable return of Kiros and then getting married and so on, but there are two burning questions:
1. How long are Laguna and Raine together before Esthar arrives
and
2. Does Laguna know Raine is pregnant before he leaves.
It's a tough question. Squall was born in August, so it stands to reason that he was conceived nine months or thereabouts earlier. As time stands in the story, it's September. If Elle is kidnapped in the theoretical Year One, they have all of three months of wedded bliss. I have to admit that interrupting it is very tragic and that's rather the point of the story, but giving them another year is so tempting. Not that I'd drag the fic out for that year, but still. Time to get attached etc.
Then again, not too many friends chill out for a year while their former commander makes nooky with the barmaid. I think it's going to have to be something as short as 3-5 months because of the way I've set the story up (drat drat drat.) If I'd only plotted the calendar a little better... :P But anyway.
Next question.
The more I think about it, the more I think Laguna must have had some inkling that he had a son, whether he knew Raine was pregnant or not. I mean... he did know Edea; we see him talk to her when he's looking for Ellone, and presumably they were in contact when Ellone goes to the orphanage later. And Laguna knows that Edea and Cid made a ship where Elle could stay safe.
So how could Edea not tell Laguna about his progeny? If we give Laguna the benefit of the doubt, then she might not have known who Squall's father was; she didn't know Raine and she might have assumed that the baby was Raine's by some unknown man. But the kicker is that Elle must have known. The game seems to tell us that Laguna and Raine were married before he left to chase Elle - they certainly had enough time together to make a baby, and not everyone gets pregnant on the first try - and how would Elle not have told Edea who Squall's mom and dad were?
So I am forced to conclude that Laguna knew that he had a son, one way or another, and either he was so busted up over Raine's death that he didn't want to take care of the baby or he just didn't feel he could handle raising a son alone. I suppose Laguna might have thought that growing up with other kids was better than growing up in the Presidential Palace. I hardly think that excuses anything, but still.
[Laguna is looking very shamefaced]
Yeah, you probably should look shamefaced at that, dear muse. The only mitigating factor is that you meant well, in all likelihood.
Still must do some more mulling over this but thinking it through like this helps.
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no subject
Date: 2002-06-19 02:14 pm (UTC)*dodges hail of pens and pencils*
Seriously, I don't know if I can offer any suggestions. It seems you have this well thought out. Just so you don't turn it into one of those, if there was a clone you see, and then a time machine, and then a little magic...
But it looks like you take your fan fic research as seriously as some people do their novels. Too bad other people didn't feel compelled to do the same...
no subject
Date: 2002-06-19 02:22 pm (UTC)But yeah, I really like to think about the possibilities and what's the most likely, most in character, most plausible reason for what's going on.
Clone? Time machine? Magic? *clunk*
BTW thanks for Mulholland Drive, I'm listening to it right now.
Re:
Date: 2002-06-19 03:01 pm (UTC)[Okay, someone is in serious jeapordy now. ;)]
I hope your muses cooperate more than me, and actually give you an idea you can use.
no subject
Date: 2002-06-19 04:26 pm (UTC)*readies the slingshot to discourage any more "good ideas"*
Re:
Date: 2002-06-19 04:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2002-06-19 04:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2002-06-19 02:38 pm (UTC)>*dodges hail of pens and pencils*
LOL ! For some reason I can envision that... No offense Hideto ! :D
I think 3 - 5 months or so sounds like the right amount of time, a year sounds like too much. 3 months not being too little if you want to go by the calendar.
I always got the impression that Laguna came to the orphanage to check on Ellone, I think he mentions her in one conversation with Edea outside of the orphanage but since he doesn't ask about Squall, I got the feeling he didn't know about him then or that might just be the game's intentions. It's unlikely he didn't know from Ellone that he did have a son, though, in the game doesn't he stop Squall once and almost start saying something that they will have to talk later. And Kiros or Ward says "you look like your mother" or something like that to Squall if you play cards with them. Or I may be confusing the game with Mullenkamp's card fic.
no subject
Date: 2002-06-19 03:00 pm (UTC)Laguna does stop by the orphanage once in the game, but IIRC, he's looking for Ellone, not checking on her. I'd have to look at the game script to make 100% sure. Ostensibly, this is how he knows about the Kramers.
But yeah, on the Ragnarok, Kiros tells Squall that it's a good thing that he looks like his mother and not his father. I also find it quite hard to believe that Laguna never heard about his son from Ellone or anyone else. Not so noble of you, Laguna... But yeah, just before Squall goes off to attack Lunatic Pandore, Laguna does invite him to talk. Knowing Squall, you could probably have frozen water in the room where they were talking by the end of it... O_o
[Laguna looks even more shamefaced]
no subject
Date: 2002-06-19 03:22 pm (UTC)And Edea is so appalled that he doesn't ask about his son also that she refuses to tell him that Ellone is there. (Maybe he only wants her for her strange power, after all, and doesn't really want to take care of children...)
Of course, she doesn't know that he doesn't know he has a son also, and thus can't ask. She continues hiding them for awhile as seen in the game, and it's only when Ellone's older, and understands stuff like the time frame that would have to be involved, that it comes out that Laguna probably didn't know about Squall at all. By that time he's been set up in Esthar for quite some time, but Edea never knew who he was when he just showed up asking about Ellone, so can't do anything to help them get together again.
It's been awhile since I played the game, so I don't know how well that would fit into continuity... more or less a weird musing I had that I may or may not end up writing.
As for how long Laguna and Raine had together, I think it's implied they didn't have very long at all, and that would be my vote, but I've been known to go for the angsty way instead of the happy way. :P
no subject
Date: 2002-06-19 04:25 pm (UTC)I was under the impression that the visit to Edea was before Laguna managed to get to Ellone in Esthar. Have I got my timelines whacked out? It wouldn't be the first time.
But your point about Edea is something worth considering - that she is rather appalled that Laguna would do something like send Ellone to live with her (post-Esthar?) and perhaps she thinks Squall would be better off with her... and if Laguna doesn't know he's a dad...
Kill the plotbunnies! :) No, not really. Bunnies are cute. Even if my friend Tracy's bunny tries to bite me all the time.
no subject
Date: 2002-06-19 05:07 pm (UTC)Laguna leaves to get Ellone from Esthar, shortly before Raine discovers she's pregnant. Laguna rescues Ellone, and sends her back to Winhill ahead of him, as he's kind of busy, what with being pushed into the whole presidency thing, and he can't go back to Raine yet himself. Ellone arrives right around the time Squall is born, and Raine dies shortly after. No one in town knows where Laguna is at this point, and they didn't much care for him anyway, so Ellone and Squall are sent to the orphanage.
Then Laguna finally manages to get back to Winhill, only to find that Raine is dead and no one will tell him exactly what happened or where Ellone is, because they never trusted him. They never even bother telling him he has a son, and he doesn't find out until years later when he and Ellone finally meet again, after the thing with the White SeeD ship.
That's how the continuity goes in my mind, anyway... there may be holes in that theory for all I know, the whole thing is so open to interpretation...
no subject
Date: 2002-06-19 06:15 pm (UTC)Travels might explain why Raine and Laguna might not really have been in touch while she was pregnant; he might have known where to contact her, but since he was all over the place, she wouldn't have been able to write back. (ummm.... phone call, Laguna?) And maybe she didn't want to tell him about the baby because she knew he'd come home. And Raine wanted Laguna to get Elle out (reminds me of that delightful quote from the dj: "Ah, those people who took Elle... beat them for me."
That's a good point about Ellone and the SeeD ship. Perhaps Elle and Laguna just weren't in contact at all. And she might not have understood when she was little that he had become the President of Esthar.
I really am rambling quite a lot at this point. O_o But thanks for the talk; it helps things solidify!
no subject
Date: 2002-06-19 06:37 pm (UTC)The thing that struck me about the White SeeD ship that made me really think Elle and Laguna hadn't kept in contact is... if I'm remembering this right, the White SeeDs reported that they sent the Esthar ship away, but then Ellone had suddenly gotten all excited when she saw someone aboard the Esthar ship and actually jumped off the White SeeD ship to get to it as it was leaving. Ellone never seemed that excitable to me, so I'm thinking that must have been something really big, to make her do that... she wasn't being held captive there against her will, after all - they were just protecting her.
And then there's the conversation she has with Squall on the space station, where she says that she knew now, after sending Squall and his friends back into Laguna and Ward and Kiros, how much she was loved. I figure she'd have known she was loved if she'd been around Laguna for any significant portion of her life... that was pretty soon after the White SeeD thing, and I suspect all the times she sent Squall back were before that happened.
The thing about Laguna not keeping in contact with Raine is a little odd, yeah... but you know how absent-minded he can be when he's got his mind on something, and it might have been that he just was too busy trying to figure out how to find Elle. So really, the only part that doesn't really add up to me is... Ellone obviously knew who Squall was all along, so why didn't she say something her relation to Squall before all this happened?
I guess with the GFs, it's possible that she did and Squall just forgot, and she never knew that he forgot who she was and therefore never explained it again... As for after she and Laguna were reunited, if it happened in the above manner, I imagine Laguna wanted to tell Squall himself. Or if not wanted to (I'm sure the idea of having that talk didn't exactly thrill him), at least felt it was his duty...
Hmm, this thread seems to be resolving most of the things I considered possible holes in my theory. Woohoo! :D